UP Ibalon Bicol: UP Ibalon Talks on the US Presidential Elections 2008

UP Ibalon Talks on the US Presidential Elections 2008

9/06/2008 | Posted by andygimpaya | Edit Post

By popular demand, I am posting here all the exchanges of notes on the US Presidential Election 2008, so others can participate. Use the Comments utility if you like.

From Totie:
Andy, heated up na ang pres. election sa 'merika. Your blog brings an opinion that surely will interest readers. Dinagdagan ko to strike a balance. Though bako kitang parareho mag-isip, your opinion airs one side of the coin that must go well with contrarian readers. "Agreeing to disagree," is the way of the web. It's up for us to be where we'll find ourselves in the market place of ideas----something we do all the time to survive the complex world!

From Andy:
Totie,

I posted that story on Palin before the Associated Press picked it up:

http://news. yahoo.com/ s/ap/20080904/ ap_on_el_ pr/cvn_palin_ iraq_war_ 7

Palin just struck my sensibility. Imagine justifying a destructive war as an act of God. This was the very frequent justification in the olden days for holder of powers to invade countries and kingdoms at the time when the Church still had its ways. When the king of France and the Pope did not like to pay its huge debts to the Knights Templar, they massacred them and called it an act of God. There are lots of examples in uncensored sources. Imagine what a President Palin can do to China, Japan, and India to whom the US is now indebted trillions of $s.

Her absolute opposition to abortion even in cases of rape, incest and danger to the mother's life is unacceptable from the medical standpoint, and even moral or humanitarian. A doctor can get into trouble by using his judgment in taking out an in utero fetal death or discontinuing a pregnancy in a mother in danger of heart atack or thyroid storm.

Her stand favoring creationism over Darwin's theory of evolution is a hold-out position, much like the Ku Klux clan, and has no part in present world. Of course, you know that creationists are actively campaigning there to get the doctrine of creation taught in US public schools. Imagine children being taught again that the world was created in 4035 B.C. because that is how the archbishops calculated it.(Read on Archbishop Usher).

Her hardline stance against pre-marital sex is haunting her now.

I respect all beliefs. Let Palin be a governor or senator. Let her live out her beliefs with fellow congregants. But do not put her a breath away from the most powerful office in the world.

Now, it is becoming clear that Palin's base is the evangilical base and McCain is helpless against this group.After Palin's sickening speech last night, I donated at barrackobama. com to show support. In all likelihood, the donation will be returned because the webmasters will soon find out that I am not a US citizen. Quite unfair because a bad or good US president also affects us here. Yes, Pailn can move people into action but in a way different from her intentions.

There are universal dreams and values. Obama gets it. McCain and certainly Palin do not.

Totie, I hope I have given you some glimpse how we view the US election from here. Do not worry about your tax figures for now. They will certainly change because US citizens have so much power over their govenment.

From Mighty:
Right on, Andy.
I hope the GOP, the party of "interventionists" loses. Pakikiaram lang sa mundo an dadarahon ninda like Bush jr. Kasuarin man nagdara ki peace, development o understanding an intervention ninda sa Iraq?
Only if one understands the ways of imperialism can one understand why one conflict far from their boundaries is part of their "national security" or "national interest." But using religion? Nahiling ko sa Net an pics and stories of German priests blessing the army of Hitler.
And what alarmism! I have come to read a recent thread calling Putin "the scourge of God". And the recent Russian deployment of arms as "the biggest since Khruschev". Huh?
I was surprised at Amb. Kenney's presence in the supposed MOA-AD signing in Kuala Lumpur. Kasuarin man naging part an US sa peace process sa South? I will not be surprised kun an US an nag-torpedo kan peace process thru the ilks of Ermita and Esperon. The US will never tolerate militant Muslim enclaves that can possibly harbor Muslim "terrorists" . Feeling part of their "national security", e.
I just hope the US citizenry can rein in their leaders and teach them the internationally- accepted concept of "non-intervention" and that war cannot be part of a country's national policy like what the UN charter says.

From Totie:

Andy and all my beloved Ibalons:

Napagayon na kita igua nin sharing sa satuyang mga ideyas. It takes me a lot of while to think like the warring anchors of TV---that's to be comfortable with the point of view of others without being emotionally affected by them. With effort, I hope I am going there. I like to believe I am open to ideas. hahahah!

I think it's important that we're dispassionate in approaching the world's vexing issues because there's no soft solution that will solve all of them. We have been transformed into a multicultural world with a very plural way of looking at things, based on our respective experiences. Because of this we must listen to many point of views. However, most of us have no luxury have these.

All the points Andy raised are valid. I appreciate them though it's in the details that most disconcordance in point of views differ. We quickly realize that the issues of the US election are so many. So if one feels so passionate about religion for example, that will be enough to make him decide on who to vote. Majority of voters don't have time to ponder---serious issues give us a lot of headache! But thanks to the "news in real time" which forces everyone to start looking more closely.

Take the case of the Iraq war, Americans are just like us Filipinos. When 911 was fresh, there was almost complete unanimity of going into war. Americans did not trust the UN which after 16 resolutions against Saddam can't do anything---and as a nation, majority voted for war. But when the going went rough, the supporters abandoned the cause they supported. Isn't this not a familiar reaction of balimbings?

It's a natural reaction that people don't want losers. And they forget the threat of terrorism in America is real and unabating--- -we don't have gates and walls on buildings before....or the long lines in airports.... many Americans have become complacent (less than 4,000 lang naman ang namatay sa 911 ha?) Just because we're successful now, the horror won't happen again (all experts agree it is just a matter of time though some quarters in society think this is alarmist, ignoring the hate enemies of America is spewing...)

The staunch supporters of Bush blamed him on a decision that was based on erroneous intelligence (forgetting that Britain and the rest of Europe based their intelligence on the same errors.) Definitely Bush committed mistakes (kaya ngani dae siya very visible sa election.)

The media acted to blame Bush who was steadfast in protecting the homeland. The cost of war is enormous not only on lives of soldiers. The people were concerned and they wanted to withdraw---- but we know, this is easily said than done. Bush tried to solve this is by the surge of troops which is now working under Gen. Petraeas. The media, bent to prove they're correct in their pessimism, became silent. The silence is deafening in contrast to the exaggerated criticisms they made earlier that shaped many of people's opinion----includin g those of people outside America. Kaya hil'nga dikit na ang nagbabasa sa New York Times ngonian kasi alam ng tao nakakasobra ang mga liberals and secular progessives.

It's easy to understand America as an imperialist devil. But this comes as an expected consequence of a world power that gropes (just like us,) on policies, directions, and past mistakes that have piled through the years. This is the consequence of the American experience! In many occasions, it is proven, America isn't perfect but she is the envy of the world. With very high world expectation, there are errors in her wings---but USA has to move on. It has to make sense of its bipolar position that angers the world and leave critics well-fully armed. But come to think of it, in America's struggles, which nation in the world has that "moral ground" to lead? None. But, I think America comes the closest, unless one prefers China, Russia, the Philippines or the Al Qaeda.

In the meantime, expectations remains unmet, people want change. But they know this can't happen overnight. This is why, in spite of Obama's beautiful promises, he remains neck-and-neck with McCain who knows from experience the workings of the world better. This is unexpected and it rattles the Democrats. Obama is supported by the liberal left, the socialists, secular progressive and those who want to tear the fabric on which American society is based. They hate religion, wants a welfare government which gives away services, but where will the money come from? Of course from our taxes which averages to about 1/3 of a regular American's income.

Yes! We have well placed communists in the government too. McCain has started to unravel his personality to the voters----letting them know that between Obama and him, his patriotic motive is clear---In his age of generativity (Maslow's law of individual needs.) McCain is rich, a patriot and an influential man while Obama is an upstart. There is little in McCain's resume that he needs and Americans are thinking... The Democrats fight the traditional capitalist entrepreneurship of America (represented by the Republicans, a party associated with the rich) which has brought us Hollywood and the internet that we enjoy, but at the same time bring evil that we abhor. What the Dems say of a divided, poor, directionless, bankrupt, racial, etc America is a bit exaggerated. I don't feel it that way in spite of my disability and the catastrophic illness I'm facing. Obama plans a universal healthcare, but he gonna tax the people more on that. Where will they get the money? It's a plan even the Clintons failed in their two years of power.

Comes with the Iraq issue are concerns---economy, healthcare, illegal immigration, homeland security, SSS that voters are grappling with. So it's no wonder why they are divided as much as the world. The Democrats are generally supported by the world outside because they offer avenues for change to "redistribute" wealth in the world. It's a Chrisitan imperative that many Filipinos hear. The Republicans are supported by the traditional Americans who felt they deserve what they worked for.

At the root of the American's psyche however, what prevails is still a concern for the world (do you think we can expect this of other peoples in the world if they have become so rich like the Americans?) In spite of hardships in the homeland, they work the hardest and juggle their jobs with their family responsibilities. ..many of them are still generous, rooted in their Judeo-Christian tranditions. This is a reality that even immigrants come to know when they support families back home----in spite of the bad rap of a bad economy...Americans continue to give.

Halaba na ini. Magayon na pag-olayan, pero let's stop here for a while. My gut feeling, Obama won't easily win the presidency as the Democrats thought earlier. Baka da'ogon siya. It would have been easier to defeat McCain if Hillary was the candidate. I think majority of Filipinos , immigrants, and new-comers in America want the Democratic party which offer them an easy way to get a good slice of the American pie (i.e. libre ang pension can mga dae nagtrabahong imigrante which no sane nation can afford!) That's understandable.

But for me, I'm contended with the opportunities USA has given me. I have seen how Americans work and the price they pay for their "success." I don't mind not being "too equal" with them who came earlier---full equality is something I would reserve for our children who started here. But I fight just like any American when I know my rights are trampled (I have a few lawyers to work for me based on their expertise of a problem.)

So Ibalonians, keep the ideas coming. My point of view is from someone who has lived here for a while. The world can be seen in different prisms, and we must not be afraid to disagree. Even our family who loves each member, has lots of disagreements. To talk about it is definitely a healthy thing to do. As a last thought, I think the weaknes of society has something to do with lack of communication and the lack of courage to face reality as it is. I love you all. Hmmmp!!! Halaba'on na naman! hahaha!

From Andy:
Totie,

Actually, I do small things I can online to help the Obama campaign. Mainly I submit blogs, comment on forums and flag down YouTube videos that are obvious propaganda from the McCain-Palin camp. This God-forsaken country of ours is in my mind as I do them.

I do not think Obama supporters want to tear down the fabric of American society. You cannot tag Google, Microsoft, JPMorgan Chase, to name a few, as liberal left, secular progressive nor socialist who like to harm America. Neither are Harvard University, University of California, again to name a few. These institutions just know that mainland America will be safer and its prosperity and its world leadership secured if the American government starts seriously respecting the rest of the world, a view Obama espouses. Even Bill Clinton said "the world respects the power of our example rather than the example of our power." This is opposed to the "good ol' boy" "go f__k the world" "to hell with the world" stance of the Republicans.

Recently, the mainstream US media has started singing pro-Obama tunes, but only according to the ultra-right, Bush-McCain loving Fox News. Fox anchors now complain of the "death of journalism in America" just because ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Time, etc., inquired too deeply on the personal circumstances of Palin.

Death of jourmalism? Look who's talking. I do not know how you see Fox News but it reminds me of Marcos's infamous Channel 2 and Radyo ng Bayan just before EDSA I. The maintream US media also has high stakes in this election because if McCain wins, the whole US news channel might be under the thumb of Australian billionaire Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch owns News Corp that owns Fox Network, 20th Century Fox, 135 newspapers and 35 TV channels in the US.The influence of his media empire is worlwide. He is a big supporter of Bush and MacCain, warmonger, supporter of dictatorial regimes,oil imperialist, enabler of human rights violators, New York City political boss... Totie, I think you can add the rest. He also owns MySpace, but this is useless as a political tool because its membership is so international.

We are no fan of ABC (Desperate Housewives) and NBC (Jay Leno's insults to Filipinos). I would even like to see Murdoch take them off the air. But believe me these networks are more lovable than Fox News.

In Berlin, Obama announced that he will have none of the persesution of the dissidents in Burma, the voters in Zimbabwe--- and "never again in Darfur." Gloria Arroyo is not yet in his black list, but when GMA went to US last June, Obama refused to meet her. (Sec Dureza said Obama just called GMA by phone). Definitely, McCain did meet her personally. So if we like Gloria to behave and prevent her from attempting to perpetuate herself in power, we have better chances if Obama were the US president.

And this: McCain's age is no issue but his 4 bouts with melanoma, first diagmosed as Stage IIA in 2000, should be. The Obama camp is just too decent to hammer hard on this. The chance that Palin shall be the most powerful person in the world is so high. In addition, to what I already mentioned, Palin also does not believe that there is such a thing as global warming, a dangerous view for a potential world leader.

Stakes are indeed so high for all people in this particular US election.